Thursday, November 23, 2017

Answer for anti abhidhamma/commentary people

Zom wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:51 pm
because at 1st saṅgāyanā, the Sangha made the unanimous decision to keep all vinaya rules.
You are anti commentary, so you distort my translated history from commentary, by your just opinion.
Zom wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:51 pm
By the way, what is your opinion on that fact that Abhidhamma is not mentioned in the discriptions of both 1st and 2nd theravadin councils? If it was so important, this is a bit strange, don't you think? Especially when Abhidhamma is not mentioned in the suttas at all.
I gave you the pāli link to seaching for the reason yourself, why you never read it?
Do you found your opinion by yourself from pāli canon?
Or you just believe your professors, but never read any abhidhamma-pāli and commentary-pāli by yourself?

In ancient commentary, that authored in buddha times and added more important information about each saṅgāyanā later until 4th saṅgāyanā (then added into siṅhala commentary instead, so it called ancient commentary), said:

  1. In 1st saṅgāyanā, bh. kassapa asked 4 suttanta with bh. ānanda:
    1. Before 1st saṅgāyana, vinaya was memorized & authored by bh. upāli and memorized by his students. Suttanta was memorized by bh. ānanda and his students. Abhidhamma was memorized & authored by bh. sāriputta and memorized by his students. After 1st saṅgāyanā, I explained before.
    2. So, we can see abhidhamma-styled suttanta by sāriputta's sutta that memorized by ānanda in suttas, such as D.N. saṅgītisutta, D.N. dasuttarasutta, etc.
    3. bh. ānanda, was one of not direct bh. sāriputta's students because in mahāgosiṅgasālasutta said ānanda and the other etadagga often go to sāriputta's school to listen sāriputta's teaching.
      • However, ānanda was not a computer, he cannot memorized 4 nikāya together with 6 abhidhamma. (can you memorized sutta-pāli just 1 vagga?)
    4. So, in A.N. ekakanipāta etadagga-pāli, buddha said ānanda was the best in sutta-memorizer, upāli was the best in vinaya, and sāriputta was the best in teaching.
  2. The meaning of dhammavinaya is dhamma+vinaya = (sutta+abhidhamma)+vinaya. So, by the description it was already included in 1st and 2nd ancient theravāda saṅgāyanā.
  3. If you even actually studied abhidhamma, you will see the fact "it is actual that abhidhamma was just a dictionary and commentary of suttanta". Abhidhamma looks like formulas of arahanta. So, alagaddūpamasutta's commentary and introduction of viniaya's commentary said "memorizing whole tipitaka is just a job of arahanta-ariya". Because when arahanta's task done, ādittapariyāya sutta, then he can recite tipitaka full-time. Then when someone memorized many relational stuffs, they will reference each related stuffs together.
Another in my experience, asoka's magathī is very difference from pāli and commentary. So, abhidhamma, except the 4th canon, and commentary can not wrote in that time.
And, by the way, how will you explain that fact that language in Abidhamma differs a lot (from linguistic point of view) from that in Suttanta?
I explained by the historical reference, not just professor suggestion and imagination like you did.
theY wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:37 am
At buddha time, oral reciting&memorizing was the only one way to learn buddha's teaching. So this is the main cause to have commentary at that buddha generation.


Because Buddha taught each sutta for just students in front of him. So, when bh. ānanda, bh. sāriputta, and bh. upāli had learned oral teaching from buddha, then after buddha finished sutta, they must asked about state, situation, and meaning of each word in that sutta. This was called the great dhamma&vinaya commentary.

There are very less people in tipitaka who appear to be the most important commentators at buddha generation (A.N. Ekapuggala) : budhha, sāriputta (as dhamma teacher), upāli (as vinaya teacher). The others always listen&learned&asked from those important teachers.

The special teaching, about vinaya from buddha to upāli, were appear with upāli literature style in sikkhāpada-nidāna, sikkhāpada-vibhaṅga, parivāra, and the great vinaya commentary (vanished).

The special teaching, about dhamma from buddha to sāriputta, were appear with sāriputta literature style in abhidhamma-pitaka, K.N.Niddesa, K.N. Paṭisambhidāmagga, K.N. Buddhavaṃsa, K.N. Cariyāpitaka, and the great vinaya commentary (vanished).

Tipitaka strongly keep in pali language because of memorizing vinaya rule that force bhikkhu to memorize tipitaka before live alone or teach others.

But the great commentary didn't include in that vinaya rule, so when the time gone by, commentary loose pali form.

However, the great commentary translated to siṅhala after 3rd saṅgāyanā and translated back again (with extended comment from siṅhala-teachers) by buddhaghosa and many bhikkhus at 10th buddhist century.
Layers of pali literature already being in buddha-living-period.

There are many pali literature in buddha's time, such as buddha's literature, sāriputta's literature, mahākaccāna's literature, upāli's literature, etc. Because every mahāsāvaka have there own students.

But the most influential literature are buddha's literature and sāriputta's literature.

4 nikaya are buddha's literature, most of the others cannon are sāriputta's literature, because he is the one who buddha said "sāriputta is the best teacher who can teach like me". So everyone always go to meet sāriputta to listen his teaching, in his literature. But if someone need buddha's literature, they will go to meet buddha or ānanda, who is the best in sutta memorizing.

So, abhidhamma is difference from sutta, because commentary said "abhidhamma is memorized by sāriputta". And the other buddha's sāvaka book also have literature look like sāriputta's literature because everyone in buddha-living-period often go to learn dhamma with sāriputta (see:mahāgosiṅgasālasuttaṃ).

7 Vinaya-pitaka, is memorized by Upāli and his students. He also author some path of parivāra because buddha said in tipitaka (a.n.) "Upāli is the best vinaya-memorizer" (vinayadharānaṃ yadidaṃ upāliฯ).

Suttanta-pitaka is memorized by Ānanda. But in 1st saṅgayanā, 500 arahanta decide to separate whole sutta to 4 nikya.Then they gave each nikya to a group of 4 etadagga and his student to especially memorize it.

Who are the members, of group of 4 etadagga? Ānanda and his students (tn), Sāriputta's students (mn), Kassapa and his students (sn), Anuruddha and his students (an). (The others have learned and memorized dhamma, too, but buddha said "ānanda is the best", so everyone need him in 1st saṅgayanā).

Abhidhamma-pitaka, paṭisambhidāmagga, niddesa, buddhavaṃsa, cariyā-pitaka, except kathāvatthu of moggalliputta, is learned by Sāriputta, But then they are memorized by every arahanta, because everyone in buddha-living-period often go to listen Sāriputta (see:mahāgosiṅgasālasuttaṃ).

Origin: ... Commentary

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