there are 4th-jhāna-attaining peoples' consciousness, while the practitioner is attaining 4th-jhāna

DooDoot wrote: ↑

Tue May 08, 2018 4:01 am

Consciousness is present in the 4th jhana. While Abhidhamma has some different ideas to the Pali suttas; Abhidhamma would not be so extreme & discordant to say the 4th jhana has no consciousness.

The fact is both sutta and abhidhamma never said "there is no consciousness of 4th-jhāna-attaining people". But abhidhamma said "asaññasatta has no consciousness".

DooDoot wrote: ↑

Tue May 08, 2018 4:01 am

From an Abhidhamma book:

Fourth Jhàna moral consciousness together with happiness and one-pointedness (page 62)
....
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf

It is a very misunderstood quote. The quote showing 4th-jhāna-attaining peoples' minds, not asaññasattas' minds.

Another, all of your quote showing "both abhidhamma and sutta said 'there are 4th-jhāna-attaining peoples' consciousness, while the practitioner is attaining 4th-jhāna'". Because in anupadasutta, which you quoting, said about 4th-jhāna-consciousness of sāriputta as the object o the insight meditation of sāriputta, which he does after he exit that 4th-jhāna.

So, both abhidhamma and sutta said "there are 4th-jhāna-attaining peoples' consciousness, while the practitioner is attaining 4th-jhāna".