do the suttas allow for temperature born matter at all though? Or in the suttas is all matter necessarily the of kamma/volitional formations? If not, how did the elders explain this?

zan wrote: ↑

Wed May 02, 2018 7:35 pm

Okay thank you, do the suttas allow for temperature born matter at all though? Or in the suttas is all matter necessarily the of kamma/volitional formations?

If not, how did the elders explain this?

It is appear in the similitude of Sutta. Aṅ. (1): eka-duka-tikanipātā accāyikāsutta:

“tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, kassakassa gahapatissa accāyikāni karaṇīyāni. katamāni tīṇi? idha, bhikkhave, kassako gahapati sīghaṃ sīghaṃ khettaṃ sukaṭṭhaṃ karoti sumatikataṃ. sīghaṃ sīghaṃ khettaṃ sukaṭṭhaṃ karitvā sumatikataṃ sīghaṃ sīghaṃ bījāni patiṭṭhāpeti. sīghaṃ sīghaṃ bījāni patiṭṭhāpetvā sīghaṃ sīghaṃ udakaṃ abhinetipi apanetipi. imāni kho, bhikkhave, tīṇi kassakassa gahapatissa accāyikāni karaṇīyāni. tassa kho taṃ, bhikkhave, kassakassa gahapatissa natthi sā iddhi vā ānubhāvo vā: ‘ajjeva me dhaññāni jāyantu, sveva gabbhīni hontu, uttarasveva paccantū’ti. atha kho, bhikkhave, hoti so samayo yaṃ tassa kassakassa gahapatissa tāni dhaññāni utupariṇāmīni jāyantipi gabbhīnipi honti paccantipi.

"There are these three urgent duties of a farming householder. Which three? "There is the case where a farming householder quickly gets his field well-plowed & well-harrowed. Having quickly gotten his field well-plowed & well-harrowed, he quickly plants the seed. Having quickly planted the seed, he quickly lets in the water & then lets it out. These are the three urgent duties of a farming householder. Now, that farming householder does not have the power or might [to say:] 'May my crops spring up today, may the grains appear tomorrow, and may they ripen the next day.' But when the time has come, the farming householder's crops spring up, the grains appear, and they ripen.

This similitude already show the understanding in activation energy (Ea) of the buddha which can occur in the matter cycle without kamma. This is called utu-niyāma in atthakathā.

Also, there are more information of the processing in "visuddhimagga maggāmaggañāṇadassanavisuddhiniddesa rupa-nibbatti-passanākāra-kathā (no.700)", the translation is path of purification (however, I think the translation of that path may be wrong, if they translate it follow the thai translation version). It is about 1 utu-matter (tejo) can create 4-12 new matters depend on the type of that utu.

So, you can use above information with Sutta. Tī. Pā. Aggaññasutta, and Sutta. Aṅ. (2): catukkanipāto puttasutta.

In my opinion, it is not make sense when someone say "every matter must arise by kamma", because it can not connect with the science. And it will be very complicate to arise, such as "if one stone can arise by infinity kamma, how the matter in the other galaxies, which are no lives, can arise?". But when the matters can arise by the other matters, especially temperature (tejo), without kamma-requiring, it is very clear and more possible to happen.