Wednesday, March 7, 2018

Please, learn (not just read) tipitaka in the ancient study system first, before you judge it.

From: https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=31361&p=461798#p461798

Because you never learn naya in netti-pakaraṇa, never enlighten, and never been a good teacher, so you think like that.
  1. If you learned naya in netti-pakaraṇa, you will know why the 1st-saṅgāyanā-saṅgha categorized tipitaka like that. I learned and answer follow to the 1st-saṅgāyanā-saṅgha's thought.You can guess like a historian like the other westerners often do, but because you choose to guess, not learn it as it is, so you will never understand the 1st-saṅgāyanā-saṅgha. Theravāda-tipitaka still keep our ancient learning system,which the historian never try to understand it by study it as it is. So for me, what, the western often do, is distorting tipitaka and commentary like a guesser or a historian. They judge 1st-saṅgāyanā-saṅgha before they understand 1st-saṅgāyanā-saṅgha's thinking. And because the westerner don't know the 1st-saṅgāyanā-saṅgha's thinking, so the westerner often have the reason to cut many part of tipitaka off and distort commentary. Your professors just read through pāli canons, but they never understand what was the categorizer, the 1st-saṅgāyanā-saṅgha, thinking while they categorizing tipitaka. They never try to do, so they still try to cut some part of tipitaka off.
  2. If you have enlightened, you will know the enlightening-to person will enlighten by only one effectual characterize. The practitioner must meditate by all 3 characterizes, but while enlightening-to moment, only one effectual characterize is required. This is what in tipitaka called 3 vimokkha, which relate with 3 characterizes. After enlightened, he can practice the other characterize skill to be effectual, too. It is like when you meditate metta to everyone, but you will attain 1st-metta-appanā-jhāna just by a person. But after that, the practitioner can practice metta to the others, then attained sīmasambheda-appanā-mettā-jhāna. I have not attained or enlightened by myself. I just wrote follow to tipitaka and commentary.
  3. If you are a good teacher, you must memorized and understood everything you teaching, such as book's contents, each student's habit, each student's future, like a smart economist who can predict the future of world economic. You never be a good teacher, so you can't understand what I wrote follow to commentary, who were tipitaka memorizers.
Please, learn (not just read) tipitaka in the ancient study system first, before you judge it.

Monday, March 5, 2018

What is the difference between Sakkaya Ditthi and Attanuditthi?

(Note: the same format are relating to the same format.)

Do you want to understand perfect like this? Recite tipitaka-pāli. It is required for ancient theravāda study systemIf you will not, trusting in abhidhamma and atthakathā is another choice, because the authors of them are tipitaka-memorizers.

They are just the synonym.

Your 3 suttas, which near by each other, describing each other like this:
Diṭṭhi means misunderstanding of causes and effects, clinging-aggregates which is anattā as attā.
Anu is prefix which means often.
Micchā is prefix which means mistake.
Sakkāya is a name of clinging-aggregates follow to many sutta, such as Sutta. Ma. Mū. Cūḷavedallasuttaṃ.
These clinging-aggregates are the Sakkāya described by the Blessed One.
So, sakkāya-micchā-anu-diṭṭhi means often mis-understanding, micchā-anu-diṭṭhi (verb act as noun), of sakkāya (object), causes and effects, clung-aggregates, anattā as attā.


Note0:
Above pāli appear in these suttas:

{549.1} Yā imā gahapati anekavihitā diṭṭhiyo loke
uppajjanti sassato lokoti vā asassato lokoti vā antavā
lokoti vā anantavā lokoti vā taṃ jīvaṃ taṃ sarīranti vā aññaṃ jīvaṃ
aññaṃ sarīranti vā hoti tathāgato paraṃ maraṇāti vā na hoti
tathāgato paraṃ maraṇāti vā hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṃ
maraṇāti vā neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṃ maraṇāti vā.
yāni cimāni dvāsaṭṭhidiṭṭhigatāni brahmajāle bhaṇitāni. imā
kho gahapati diṭṭhiyo sakkāyadiṭṭhiyā sati honti sakkāyadiṭṭhiyā
asati na hontīti.
[550] Kathaṃ pana bhante sakkāya-diṭṭhi hotīti . idha gahapati
assutavā puthujjano ariyānaṃ adassāvī ariyadhammassa akovido
ariyadhamme avinīto sappurisānaṃ adassāvī sappurisadhammassa
akovido sappurisadhamme avinīto rūpaṃ attato samanu-passatirūpavantaṃattānaṃ, attanirūpaṃ, rūpasmiṃattānaṃ, vedanaṃattato samanupassati .pe. saññaṃ ... saṅkhāre ... Viññāṇaṃ attato
samanupassati viññāṇavantaṃ vā attānaṃ attani vā viññāṇaṃ
viññāṇasmiṃ vā attānaṃ. Evaṃ kho gahapati sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotīti.
For "dvāsaṭṭhidiṭṭhigatāni brahmajāle" above refer to micchā-diṭṭhi in Aṅ. (2): catukkanipāto saṅghabhedakasutta:

brahmajāle:

[89] Tatra bhikkhave ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā pubbantakappikā ca
aparantakappikā ca pubbantāparantakappikā ca pubbantāparantānu-diṭṭhino
pubbantāparantaṃ ārabbha anekavihitāni adhimuttipadāni abhivadanti
dvāsaṭṭhiyā vatthūhi te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṃvedissantīti ne
ṭhānaṃ vijjati.
saṅghabhedakasutta:

{243.2} Puna caparaṃ ānanda pāpabhikkhu micchā-diṭṭhiko hoti
antaggāhikāya-diṭṭhiyā samannāgato
So, what I said:
So, sakkāya-micchā-anu-diṭṭhi means often mis-understanding, micchā-anu-diṭṭhi (verb act as noun), of sakkāya (object), causes and effects, clung-aggregates, anattā as attā.
It is completely from pāli-canon.

Note1: Sakkāya is not only internal, because there are internal clinging-aggregates, internal sakkāya, and external clinging-aggregates, external sakkāya, which are contemplating by the practitioner in Cūlavedallasutta and Sutta. Ma. Mū. Sacca-pabba of Satipaṭṭhānasuttaṃ (<< this link is a good translation of this sutta).
they meditate by observing an aspect of the principle inside and outside.
The inside and outside aspect of the principle in this term is sakkāya (clinging aggregates), sakkāyasamudayo, sakkāyanirodho, and sakkāyanirodhagāminīpaṭipadā.

Note2: Santo kāyo sakkāyo. Kāya, clinging-aggregates, is sacca, santa, vijjānana, the reality, truth, possible to arise in causes and effects cycle. So, buddha said sakkāya is sacca and clinging-aggregates in Sutta. Saṃ. Kha. Sakkāyasutta[trans].
"Sakko kāyo sakkāyo" and "para kāyo sakkāyo" is allowed in Ma. Mū. Sacca-pabba of Satipaṭṭhānasuttaṃ as an internal anupassī, but it is not the primary meaning when compare to Sutta. Saṃ. Kha. Sakkāyasutta[trans], which sakkāya meaning is defined by buddha directly. And "para kāyo sakkāyo" never found in any where else except in Satipaṭṭhānasuttaṃ.
So, if you use "sakko kāyo sakkāyo" in Sakkāyasutta, Sakkāyasutta, which has only sakko, will conflict with Sacca-pabba of Satipaṭṭhānasuttaṃ, which has both sakko and paro.
But by the "Santo kāyo sakkāyo", there is no conflict like that between the co-context sutta, such as micchādiṭṭhisutta, sakkāyadiṭṭhisutta, and attānudiṭṭhisutta, which using the same context and near by each other. Also, there is no conflict between those sutta and the faraway suttas such as Sutta. Saṃ. Kha. Sakkāyasutta, Sutta. Ma. Mū. Sacca-pabba of Satipaṭṭhānasuttaṃ, and Sutta. Ma. Mū. Cūḷavedallasuttaṃ.

Note3: Your 3 suttas, which near by each otherhttp://www.84000.org/tipitaka/read/v.php?B=18&A=3859&Z=3874&eng=metta_e, describing each other. Mostly words of them can use in the other sutta, such as anicca, dukkha, anatta, of these 3 sutta contexts all refering to saṅkhata (clinging-aggregates), which means arisen by causes. So, it can use to explain each other like appeared in Vinaya. Mahā (1) Anattalakkhaṇasutta:
  1. ‘Now what do you think, O bhikkhus, is the body permanent or perishable?’
‘It is perishable (anicca), Lord.’
‘And that which is perishable, does that cause pain or joy?’
‘It causes pain (dukkha), Lord.’
‘And that which is perishable, painful, subject to change, is it possible to regard that in this way. ‘This is mine, this am I, this is my self (atta)?’ ‘That is impossible, Lord.’
So, those 3 suttas is synonym of each other. For the example:
You never have to see "I often(1) mis(2)-understand(3) of you-ahaṃ tuvaṃ micchā(2) anu(1)-passāmi(3)" sentence. But is it the right, if I tell you A, B, and C have the same meaning?:

A: I often understand of you as permanent person.
B: I misunderstand of you as permanent person.
C: I understand of you as my dear forever (misunderstanding sakkāya as attā).

In this case the buddha can predict, because buddha maybe his teacher, the listening-bhikkhu will enlighten by animitta-vimokkha, so the buddha taught impermanence to him. And this bhikku maybe memorized micchādiṭṭhi from buddha before, so the buddha taught micchādiṭṭhi in this sutta. If the buddha teach the other words, they cannot enlighten, because the listening maybe never memorized before.


It looks like when I said หนึ่งคูณสองเท่ากับสอง, you cannot enlighten what I said. But if I said "1x2=2", you can get it.

This is the same way which commentary described SN Salāyatanavagga:
Iti idaṃ suttaṃ chasu ajjhattikāyatanesu tīṇi lakkhaṇāni dassetvā kathite bujjhanakānaṃ ajjhāsayena vuttaṃ.
For these 3 sutta, buddha taught 3 characterizes of 6 inner-āyatana depend on the enlightening-possibility of each listening-bhikkhu.
For more information, you can see naya in netti.


Note4: Also, we can explain the way that buddha match the couple by naya in netti-pakaraṇa like this:
  1. Miccha-ditthi is about antaextreme, which is permanentnicca, to be extreme like that, can not change to be the other extremes. So, impermanent is direct enemy of miccha-ditthi. (please connect the same pali with saṅghabhedakasutta above).
  2. Sakkāya is dukkha-ariyasacca in Sutta. Saṃ. Kha. Sakkāyasutta (wrong translation)Diṭṭhi is diṭṭhi-clingingdiṭṭha-upādāna which engaging sakkāya, in that Sakkāyasutta, too. So, dukkha is direct enemy of sakkāya-diṭṭhi.
  3. Attā is attāanu is upa of upādāna, vāda is diṭṭhi, they are attā-view-clinging, atta-vāda-upādāna, in Sutta. Ma. Mū. cūḷasīhanādasuttaṃ. So, anattā is direct enemy of attā-anudiṭṭhi.
**Sakkāya is clung-aggregates, upādāna-khandha. It is not self view, sakkāya-diṭṭhi-upādāna which engaging that upādāna-khandha. So, sakkāyasutta should translate like this:
“Monks, I will tell you sakkāya, the arising of sakkāya, the cessation of sakkāya and the path, leading to the cessation of sakkāya.
“Monks, what is sakkāya? The reply is the five held aggregates. What five? The held aggregates of matter, feelings, perceptions, intentions, and consciousness. Monks, to this is said the sakkāya.


Note5: Sakkāya is not similar to sakkāya-diṭṭhi in mostly suttas such as sakkāyasutta.
Sakkāya is 5 aggregates, which is engaging by diṭṭhi-clinging (diṭṭhi-upādāna).
But sakkāya-diṭṭhi is diṭṭhi-clinging, which engaging 5 aggregates.
So, mostly english version, which I random checked, translated wrong as "self view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi)", but it should be just "sakkāya".

Sunday, March 4, 2018

Cetanā, Vitakka, Sankappa, Vicāra

Question:
I see two Pali words which are translated into English as "intention":
  • Cetanā used in the definition of karma
  • Sankappa used in the definition of the Noble Eightfold Way.
Do these two words mean exactly the same thing? If not, what is the difference?

Answer:
It is a mistake, because there are not enough word to translate pali to english. Translation is very dangerous, be careful. I often say, and I will keep to say until we will realize how is weak, which cause of uncountable problems, of our study system when compare to the ancient study system.
I have asked something about mind-factors similar to this question to pa-auk sayadaw, he said "you have to attain jhāna, before you can understand the answer of this question." Because the question is about mind, citta, and mind factors, citta-sampayutta, cetasika, which is easy to understand for the people who attained mind-purification, citta-visuddhi. But it is very hard to understand for people who has not enough experience in mind-developing, citta-bhāvanā, to go to the goal, mind-expert, citta-visuddhi, which can control to avoid unwholesome-citta-sampayutta and to arise wholesome-citta-sampayutta.
But if you are already attained jhāna, this is the answer:
It depend on context, mostly should describe like path of purification, which I quoteed below, but if not we can notice by each context of saṅkappa, or see in atthakathā, which always describe the weird word.
In the path of purification (I have not read the translated what I quote. I read just in pali and thai translation. Please read on your own risk):
Part 2: Concentration (Samádhi) page 136:
  1. So far the factors abandoned by the jhána have been shown. And now, in order to show the factors associated with it, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought is said. [142] Herein, applied thinking (vitakkana) is applied thought (vitakka); hitting upon, is what is meant. 25 It has the characteristic of directing the mind on to an object (mounting the mind on its object). Its function is to strike at and thresh—for the meditator is said, in virtue of it, to have the object struck at by applied thought, threshed by applied thought. It is manifested as the leading of the mind onto an object. Sustained thinking (vicaraóa) is sustained thought (vicára); continued sustainment (anusañcaraóa), is what is meant. It has the characteristic of continued pressure on (occupation with) the object. Its function is to keep conascent [mental] states [occupied] with that. It is manifested as keeping consciousness anchored [on that object].
Part 3: Understanding (Paññá) page 470:
  1. (ii) It wills (cetayati), thus it is volition (cetaná); it collects, is the meaning. Its characteristic is the state of willing. Its function is to accumulate. It is manifested as coordinating. It accomplishes its own and others’ functions, as a senior pupil, a head carpenter, etc., do. But it is evident when it occurs in the marshalling (driving) of associated states in connection with urgent work, remembering, and so on. [464]
And you can see in saṅgaha also:
  1. Vitakka -
Vi + Ö takk, to think.
It is difficult to suggest a suitable rendering for this Pāli term which assumes different meanings in the Suttas and Abhidhamma.
In the Sutta Pitaka it has been employed in the sense of notions, ideas, thoughts, reasoning etc. In the Abhidhamma it is used in a specific technical sense.
'Lifting' of the concomitants to the object (abhiniropana) is its chief characteristic. As someone ascends to the king's palace depending on a king's favorite, relative or friend, likewise consciousness ascends to the object depending on vitakka (Atthasālini, p. 114).
Vitakka may well be defined as the application of the concomitants on the object. Manasikāra, as stated above, is the directing of the concomitants to the object. The distinguishing characteristics of these two cetasikas should be clearly understood.
Different values are attached to vitakka when it is used in different connections.
As an ordinary particular (pakinnakā) mental state it is simply called vitakka. When it is developed and cultivated it becomes the foremost factor of the First Jhāna. Then it is termed appanā because the mind is steadfastly fixed on the object. The ordinary vitakka simply throws the mind to the surface of the object.
In the subsequent Jhānas vitakka is, however, inhibited, owing to the habitual association with the object.
A villager, for instance, who visits the king's palace for the first time, needs the introduction of a favorite courtier. For his subsequent visits no such introduction is necessary as he is acquainted with the place.
It is this developed appanā-vitakka that is known as samādhi or concentration.
When vitakka is present in the Supra mundane Path Consciousness (lokuttara magga citta) it is termed sammā sankappa (Right Thoughts) because it eliminates wrong thoughts and applies the mind to Nibbāna.
Vitakka is used in entirely a different sense when used in connection with the temperaments of individuals. Vitakka carita means one of a discursive temperament. (See Ch. 1. note 38.)
  1. Vicāra -
Vi + Ö car, to wander.
Like vitakka, vicāra too is employed in a technical sense in Abhidhamma.
Vicāra is the continued exercise of the mind on the object.
Examination (anumajjana) is its chief characteristic.
So far the renderings for vitakka and vicāra are initial and sustained application respectively.
Both terms should be distinguished. Like a bee alighting on a lotus is vitakka, like its gyrating around the lotus is vicāra. Like the flapping of a bird about to fly is vitakka, like its planning movements in the sky is vicāra. Like the beating of a drum or bell is vitakka, like its reverberation is vicāra. Vicāra is also a Jhāna factor. It inhibits vicikicchā (Doubt or Indecision). (See Ch. 1. note 39.)
And for cetanā:
  1. Cetanā -
    Both cetanā and citta are derived from the same root Ö cit, to think.
    In the case of citta - mind or consciousness - the root assumes the meaning of discernment (vijānana), while in cetanā it is used in the sense of co-ordination (abhisandhāna) and accumulation (āyūhana).
    According to the Atthasālini and Vibhāvini Tīkā cetanā is that which co-ordinates the mental states associated with itself on the object of consciousness. (Attanā sampayutta-dhamme ārammane abhisandahati). Like a chief disciple, or like a carpenter who fulfills his duties and regulates the work of others as well, so does cetanā fulfill its own function and regulate the function of other concomitants associated with itself.
    A further explanation has been offered. Cetanā is that which arrives at action in conditioning the conditioned. (Sankhatābhisankharane va byāpāram āpajjatī'ti cetanā). Cetanā is that which plays a predominant part in all actions, moral and immoral.
    Shwe Zan Aung says that according to Ledi Sayadaw, the Burmese Abhidhamma scholar, "Cetanā acts on its concomitants, acts in getting the object, and acts on accomplishing the task, i.e., determines action." (Compendium, p. 236).
    The most significant mental state in the Mundane Consciousness (lokiya) is this cetanā, while in the Supra mundane it is paññā, wisdom or insight. Mundane thoughts tend to accumulate Kamma. Supra mundane thoughts, on the contrary, tend to eradicate Kamma. Hence cetanā in the supra mundane consciousness does not constitute Kamma. Cetanā in every moral and immoral type of mundane consciousness, on the other hand, is regarded as Kamma. Although Cetanā is found in Vipāka types of consciousness too, it is of no moral significance as it lacks accumulative power.
    It is this cetanā that is alluded to as sankhāra and (Kamma) bhava in the Paticca Samuppāda. In the pañcakkhandha, by sankhārakkhandha are meant the fifty mental states, excluding vedanā and saññā, with cetanā as the foremost.
    From a psychological standpoint cetanā determines the activities of the mental states associated with it. From an ethical standpoint, it determines its inevitable consequences. Hence where there is no cetanā, there is no Kamma.

Saturday, March 3, 2018

Changing anything in tipitaka is seriously denied by tipitaka and atthakathā


  1. VN Cullavagga (Recitation with) Five Hundred (Pañcasata), 
  2. Dī.A. (sumaṅgala.1 syāmaraṭṭha) Page 12 introduction
  3. Dī.A. (sumaṅgala.2 syāmaraṭṭha) Page 200 Mahāparinibbānasuttavaṇṇanā.